INTERACTIVE SESSION WITH THE COLLECTIVE LEADERSHIP, NSCN (GPRN)

NOVEMBER 25, 2021

Hosted by Naga Students’ Union Delhi (NSUD) and the Naga Peoples Movement for Human Rights (NPMHR) Delhi. Gulmohar Auditorium, India Habitat Centre, New Delhi

F O R

P R I V A T E

C I R C U L A T I O N

O N L Y

Interactive Session with the Collective Leadership, NSCN (GPRN)   November 25, 2021 Gulmohar Auditorium, India Habitat Centre, New Delhi

This leaflet is a collection of speeches and the Q & A on Naga issue recorded during an Interactive Session with the Collective Leadership, NSCN (GPRN) which was hosted by the Naga Students’ Union Delhi and the Naga Peoples Movement for Human Rights (NPMHR) Delhi.

Published by the Naga Students’ Union, Delhi, 2021 Place of Publication: New Delhi Copyright: Naga Students’ Union, Delhi (NSUD)   Compiled and Edited by Isaac Inkah, Tribunal Member, Naga Students’ Union, Delhi(NSUD) and Member, Naga Peoples Movement for Human Rights, Delhi (NPMHR) Layout Designed: Wisanni Newmai

The speeches and discussions (Q &A) were edited and paraphrased by the editor for clarityand brevity of thoughts.

THE COLLECTIVE LEADERSHIP,NSCN WAS REPRESENTED BY: 1. Rh.Raising, Member, Collective Leadership, NSCN 2. Vikiye Sumi, Member, Collective Leadership, NSCN 3. Kraibo Chawang, Member, Collective Leadership, NSCN 4. Meyong Phom, Member, Collective Leadership, NSCN

The programme began with a brief introduction and a welcome note by Isaac Charenamei, President of the Naga Students’ Union, Delhi (NSUD). He pointed out that such face-to-face interaction was long overdue and thanked the members of the Collective Leadership for taking out their time for the event. Charenamei expressed that the younger Naga citizens like any other common citizens want to see the aspiration, assertion, and struggle for Nagas legitimate political right with distinct political identity coming into light at the earliest possible time under the leadership of the current Collective Leadership.

5

EXCERPT FROM THE KEYNOTE ADDRESS BY RH. RAISING, MEMBER, COLLECTIVE LEADERSHIP, NSCN We are here to have an interaction with you to talk about

The Naga people view any kind of agreement that

the outcome of the talk. You must very anxious to hear

betrays the principle or the issue of the Nagas as ‘No

what is happening in the talk. We face lots of difficult

Solution’. For instance, the 16 Point Agreement was

problems. It is a very tough negotiation and we are

made at the expense of the issue (the people) and the

negotiating with very slippery people. But even then we

Shillong Accord was also made or arrived at the expense

tried to overcome those roadblocks, how difficult it may

of the principle. So those agreements were ‘no solution’

be and we continue to manage to overcome the

for us so fighting and confrontation continued for years.

problems.

But after decades of continued armed confrontation, the

We are here today on behalf of the talk team, Collective

government of India invited the NSCN leadership for a

Leadership, NSCN and the people.

political dialogue.

To begin with, I would like to start by saying that the

During the initial phase of the negotiation, both the

concept of Naga politics is founded on the rock of Naga

negotiating parties took their respective tough stands.

national principle which is Free Nagalim for Christ. It is

The government of India said, “Solution within the

this spirit, and concept that inspired and guided us thus

parameters of the Indian constitution and Union of

far. In fact, we Nagas are very political people. We Nagas

India” whereas the NSCN and the Naga leaders said,

are revolutionary people. We Nagas are issue-based

“Nothing to do with India and nothing sort of total

people. We are principle-based people from the very

independence and total sovereignty”. So their stands

beginning i.e. from the times of our forefathers despite

were parallel to each other with no meeting point. After a

illiteracy and other lapses here and there. They were very

series of negotiations both the parties narrowed down

political. It is on account of their stand that we are still

their stand to the Framework Agreement (FA) that was

carrying on. It is them who defended the cause of the

signed on the 3rd of August 2015. The FA reiterates and

Nagas with blood and sweat. They leave behind a living

recognised the unique history and position of the Nagas.

legacy for us.

By unique history, it means “the Nagas has a history of

Our resistance movement was inspired and guided by

independence and the Nagas was never part of Union of

our philosophy and political concept because without the

India or government either by consent or by conquest”.

concept we couldn’t start with revolution.

History will ever speak of these facts.

We cannot start a movement of the people. It has to be

In 1950, the Constituent Assembly invited the Nagas to

guided by a political concept that is rooted in history. Our

join the Indian Union but it was rejected by the Naga

people as I have said earlier are issue-based. Nagas are

people. The16 Point Agreement was an attempt to

issue-based

the

murder the issue of the Nagas but it was also rejected by

aggressor was and is issue-based. Our negotiation with

the Naga people. Likewise, the Shillong Accord was

the government of India is issue-based and that the

another attempt but it was also rejected and condemned

solution should be issue-based. That is where we stand.

by the people and the Naga National Assembly.

people.

Our

confrontation

with

6

The FA includes the word sovereignty. The FA says “both

In discretion, it is agreed that the government of India

sides have understood each other respective position and are

recognizes the Naga position that integration of all

cognizance of the universal principle that in democracy

Naga contiguous areas is their legitimate right. For the

sovereignty lies with the people”. This means the

best possible solution, all necessary positive steps shall

sovereignty of the Nagas lies with the Naga people

be taken at the earliest and all the parties agreed that

whereas the sovereignty of the Indians lies with the

matters shall be amicably resolved to the political

Indian people. “Accordingly the government of India and

process.

NSCN respecting people wishes for sharing sovereign power as

By “Nagaland or Nagalim” it means Naga ancestral

defined in the competencies reached an agreement on 3rd of

domains. It embraces all Naga territories in India

August 2015 as an honorablesolution.” By “shared

including Naga territories in Myanmar. But we know

sovereignty” it means Nagas will be exercising their

that there are some people from some quarters who

sovereign powers in their affairs however there will be

advocate solutions for Nagas of Nagaland state alone.

areas where Nagas and Indians will share sovereign

They are Nagaland state-centric which is but the

powers as defined in the competencies. The FA states for

antitheses of the Naga national principle. The

an “enduring inclusive relationship of peaceful co-existence of

Government of India (GoI) is taking undue advantage

the two entities”. By inclusive, it means all Nagas including

of disunity among the Nagas and has started exploiting

other political groups will be part of the agreement or part

the situation. It has also started exploring other

of the solution. Whereas “new relationship” means a new

options to impose its will upon the Nagas. Some of the

relationship between India and Nagas based on the

Indian leaders have also gone even to the extent of

framework agreement and its competencies and not any

misinterpreting the content of the FA intentionally so

other agreement/s or Indian constitution.

that it is negated. This is a matter of concern for all of

By “co-existences of the two entities” it means Indian and

us.

Nagas as two peoples or nations will co-exist. They will

What is your opinion if things go wrong in the

work together in many areas and live together as

negotiating table? All of us are part of the movement

different kinds of flowers bloom together in the world.

and that we are all actors in one way or the other. It is

Flag and constitution are ingredients of the unique history

everybody’s business and time has come for us again to

and sovereignty of the Nagas. Flags and constitutions are

speak on the issue with one voice and one mind.

the symbols of Naga's national identity. We cannot

But we believe that nothing will be impossible to God

imagine a political solution without the Naga flag and

who is the final authority.

constitution.

“co-existences of the two entities”

7

EXCERPT FROM THE KEYNOTE ADDRESS BY VIKIYE SUMI, MEMBER, COLLECTIVE LEADERSHIP, NSCN

This interaction is crucial and timely as many problems

When there was fighting between the Indian armed

have cropped up between the negotiating parties. I would

forces in the late 50 some Indian-centric group of

like to say that many people especially from Nagaland

people signed the 16 Point Agreement led by the Naga

state (though I don’t want to differentiate into different

Peoples Convention. They (NPC and the GoI) might

segments I have to say) are propagating that solution

have felt that there will be peace in Naga society once

within the state of Nagaland would bring peace in the

the 16 Point Agreement was signed but that was not

Naga society.

so. I had a very long argument with him that day. He

In the recent past, I have had an encounter with one of the

told me that we will sit again but unfortunately, we

very senior leaders who was an ex-Minister, a very

couldn’t sit due to our busy schedules.

qualified intellectual as well. He questioned and argued

Do you know how many Nagas have died and how

that the solution should be within the state of Nagaland.

many Nagas were killed by the Indian armed forces?

So I asked him whether he is sure that peace will prevail in

You are the future of the Nagas, the great leaders of

the Naga society if the Naga problem is be resolved within

the Nagas. Though many of you are highly intellectual

the state of Nagaland. I also questioned him whether he

and qualified I don’t know how many of you are

will be able to control his own brother, cousin, sisters, and

analysing the situation, the impending situation that

friends of Nagaland state to not join the ranks of any

might arise in the later stage i.e. post signing of an

organization when there is an armed conflict across the

agreement with the government of India by the people

border i.e. Manipur, Assam, Arunachal, and Myanmar.

of the Nagaland state. I can visualize a great conflict.

I am not even in the position to control my brothers. My

We told the Indian authorities and representative that

first cousin is in the NSCN (Unification) and another

“if you feel that you want to solve the problems of some

cousin in NNC. I also told him that “your cousin is here

group of Nagas why don’t you go ahead and resolve

with us in NSCN (GPRN) and one of your cousins is in

with them. But we will not be a party to it”. And every

Myanmar. Why can’t you control your cousins?” He kept

time the GoI has responded that “No, we will not sign

quiet and was not able to respond to my queries. I also

an agreement with them”. We have questioned them

throw a challenge to him that if he can guarantee that

time and again. We cannot leave the Naga issue at the

there will be peace in our society once the Naga problem is

hands of some reckless people. I want to be tough on

resolved within the state of Nagaland then I will be the

that. My conscience is very clear. I am not saying we

first one to join his ranks and join in what they are

won’t include our adversaries. We will include them

propagating for. He couldn’t assure me because he knows

after all we are all Nagas. We will all join hands

that there won’t be peace even if you resolve the problem

together in rebuilding the Naga society. We have never

within the Nagaland state. I also reminded him of the 16

said “no” to any of them.hen the Naga problem is

Point Agreement.

resolved everyone will be part of the agreement so instead of fighting for the common cause

8 and the rights of the Nagas and if you/they continue to side

the name of negotiation/political solution then what

with them (GoI) then the Indians will be happy. If we say ‘yes’

will be the future of the Nagas. The generation will

to what the Indians have formulated so easily then what will

curse on us because they have not done anything for

be the fate of the Naga people. Because you have not fought

the young generation. What we have in the 16 Point

and negotiated you simply have said ‘yes’ to what the Indian

Agreement is only packages/financial aid. So for how

government or the Indian representative has said. Why don’t

long shall, we continue to depend on the Indians? On

you argue with the Indians and why didn’t you tell the Indians

the economic front, we also need to find a way for self-

about the rights of the Nagas? How can we leave the issue

sustenance. We are worried about the economic field

just like that? Therefore we have told the Indian

because none of the Nagas are experts in the economic

representative about the rights of the Nagas. We are telling

field. We are trying our best by consulting with retired

our people too and today we are telling our people here in

bureaucrats, retired financial experts, etc. We are

Delhi that we are trying very hard while negotiating for the

considering their suggestion.

rights of the Nagas. It is not easy to convince the mighty

We are negotiating to make sure that our resources

Indians. The Indians know the rights of the Nagas.

will be in our hands. As per the FA we have to share the

There are two core issues that we couldn’t resolve (yet to be

custom duties though it is with the Centre (List I)

resolved) i.e. the flag and the constitution. We are trying hard

whatever comes through (border) the Nagas areas we

and we just couldn’t leave the right of the Nagas like that.

will share with the GoI. There are many points to

There are some features that we have taken from the Indian

negotiate. There are so many points that we have to

constitution and we also have included indigenous elements

concede as well. The Nagas will benefit from such

in the content of the constitution.

negotiation. But should we concede those by seeking

In the meantime, we are also discussing the question of self-

for a solution within the state of Nagaland?

sustenance. If we accept the 16 Point Agreement as it is, in

Intervention and further elucidation from Rh. Raising

Here it is a policy matter. This revolution is a long-term policy or long-term politics. It may be settled this year or it may continue for another 20 years or more I don’t know because it is long-term politics. But there is another short-term politics i.e. the state government participating in the Indian government system. We were taught that all people who serve the Indian government were termed as CID. Even LP teachers were shot because they were taken as CID or informers. When Assam Rifle comes to your village then we used to say that enemies are coming but SDO or civil workers were welcome without fear. Our world in the past was a one-prong strategy only. There are enemies in many forms such as the Assam Rifles, legislature, bureaucrats, etc. So multi-prong strategy is needed.

You can participate in the short-term policy without foregoing your long-term policy/principle. But for the sake of shortterm politics, you cannot sell out your politics. You can participate in the Assembly, bureaucracy, police, Assam Rifles, or even in the intelligence department but without foregoing your principle. You can be anybody without betraying your principle. So if our younger generation here wants to compete and join Civil Services or other bureaucratic posts they can do so. But it is wrong to say that such jobs/posts are anti-Naga but it is just a policy matter. So you can work in Delhi, or anywhere else in the world. Be it in private or government sectors. We are not opposed to that choice. With God’s grace, we are trying hard to solve the problems at the earliest time possible. Ample of opportunities will open up for all of us once the solution comes. If it doesn’t come sooner then we shall continue to give the short-term policy to you. We should give the shortterm policy to you because everybody cannot be an underground or revolutionary. Everybody cannot fight in the jungle. We should be spread out on all fronts. Like the Jews that never forget their Jerusalem. Don’t forget your Jerusalem. Nagas should not forget their Jerusalem.

9 EXCERPT FROM THE KEYNOTE ADDRESS BY KRAIBO CHAWANG, MEMBER, COLLECTIVE LEADERSHIP, NSCN

I want to begin my speech by posing these questions. Who

Prof. Gangmumei was one of the delegates representing

should decide the future of the Nagas? Who should decide

the minorities of India. That message went to the

your future? Should the Naga future be decided by

government

external forces or by ourselves? Our forefathers have not

supporting the Nagas cause. MP Prof.Meijinlung and

failed on their stand. When the British came and tried to

Grinder Muivah etc. were instrumental in assisting the PM

impose on the Nagas, Haipou Jadonang resisted so he was

of India in contacting the NSCN. PM Narasimha Rao also

arrested and accused falsely and hanged. Later came A.Z.

met the NSCN leaders in secrecy and they met in Paris and

Phizo and made a huge breakthrough and through him,

he was invited for a talk.

people awareness was brought. He has not failed in his

Three Indian generals ruled out a military solution. They

time. Many other leaders like Imkongmeren, Khodao

have categorically stated that Nagasissue is not a law and

Yanthan, Isaac Swu, Th. Muivah and others have also

order problem.

stood their ground.

When Atal Bihari Vajpayee visited Kohima in 2003 he

The confrontation started when Naga stood for the Naga

commented saying “I’m convinced that there is an

identity by saying we are Naga and not Indians. The Indian

overwhelming desire among Naga people for a permanent

leaders said we cannot be Naga but Indian and thus

peace with honorand dignity. The central government has

confrontation begins. Jawaharlal Nehru went to the

equally strong desire for permanent peace in Nagaland

extent of saying “Even if heaven falls or India goes to

based on a lasting solution with dignity for its people.”

pieces and blood runs red in the country…. Nagas will not

When the Indian leaders met Manmohan Singh he said we

be allowed to be independent”.

were very serious we have to negotiate politically even

There was a time when the whole villages were burned

outside the box and go the extra mile.

down, mass concentration, rape, and other human rights

Framework Agreement has been signed but we show

abuses were committed. Naga people have resisted

something fishy they are trying to disown or twist the FA.

making the whole world know that Nagas are fighting for

That’s why we have come here to understand together

their rights. How small or how weak the Naga maybe we

what the actual position is.

have stood and fought for our ground.

In the words of PM Modi said during the signing of the FA

The political talk and ceasefire came into existence after a

in 2015. “Today’s agreement is a shining example of what

series of events. In the early part of the 1990s, there was

we can achieve while we deal with each other in the spirit

fierce fighting. The Lord was with us when we fought.

of equality and respect. Trust and confidence when we

NSCN was represented in UNPO in 1993. In 1995 Th.

seek to understand concerns and address aspiration when

Muivah and Isaac Swu took the platform of the UN

we leave the part of the dispute and take the high road of

Human Rights Convention in Geneva and explained the

dialogue. It is a lesson and an inspiration in our troubled

background of Naga history and human rights violations

world. Today we marked not merely the end of a problem

in the Naga territory by the Indians. The government of

but the beginning of the new future.

India was terrified.

and

international

communities

began

10

“We will not only try to heal wounds and resolve

The Nagas have to come together to the original

problems but also be your partners as you restore your

principle. For this let us reason together.

pride and prestige.”

In the competencies, a Pan Naga Hoho is inserted for the

“You are also the guardian of the eastern frontier and our

whole of Nagas for the protection of tradition and

gateway to the world beyond. Equally the rest of the

culture. Since the 16 Point Agreement did not resolve

nation will join you in shaping a future of dignity

the core issue of the Nagas. The GoI appointed the

opportunity and prosperity.”

interlocutors to resolve the issue. RN Ravi as governor

The uniqueness of the Naga is not cultural or social but

started glorifying the 16 Point Agreement as the unique

historical and political. Things went wrong and Nagas

history. The statue of Imkongliba who was the leader of

were not able to stand together. The government of India

the 16 Point Agreement was made in the Raj Bhavan,

wants to keep the Nagas divided and subdivided. Under

Kohima.

the leadership of NSCN, we are having a bilateral talk as

Instead of implementing the FA, he went back to the 16

two entities but there is another group that wants to be

Point Agreement. The Nagas were successfully divided.

under the Union of India. The government of India came

Nagas were successfully divided by another agreement

and created a third force that is negotiating under the

against the FA i.e. the Agreed Position. This is the

Indian constitution which is unilateral. The problems are

problem now and if we Nagas do not come together and

in many ways created by the Nagas also and the GoI is

understand these issues in front of us then we will be

taking undue advantage.

victims of that.

11

EXCERPT OF THE PROCEEDING OF THE DISCUSSION HOUR (Q &A)

Therefore we cannot go away from India and India cannot go away from the Nagas. We will not merge with the ocean of the Indian Union or Constitution but we will

On the outcome of the recent talk

co-exist with India. We will not merge at the expense of

Response from Rh. Raising

our identity. We can be friends in political, social,

We have been having talks for decades. It is history. So

cultural, sectors, etc. But we cannot make friendship at

we have discussed all the issues many times but as I have

the cost of my political identity. Therefore there will be

mentioned earlier Indian leaders are very slippery. They

shared sovereignty.

say ‘yes’ in the morning and ‘no’ in the evening. We are

“You exercised your sovereignty in your internal affairs”,

negotiating with these types of people. However, by the

that is the assurance from the government of India but

grace of God, we manage to win over their hearts and

there will be some areas where we will share. But now

reached the Framework Agreement. The FA is a mutually

we are not given that power and we cannot decide our

accepted

future and affairs by ourselves.

agreement.

Government

of

India

has

recognized the unique history, unique identity and

We keep saying that we are people who have been

sovereign rights of the Nagas. However, Nagas have total

exercising total sovereignty. But nowadays no country is

sovereignty.

right.

totally independent but everything is interdependent or

Sovereignty in the past was with the monarch who was

interrelated. Even US, the superpower today is

the only sovereign authority. But now democracy has

dependent on many other nations in one way or the

come overthrowing the monarchical type of government.

other, so nothing exists in total isolation. Even we human

Democracy is pluralism. Sovereignty is divided for

beings cannot isolate ourselves. Whether we like it or not

instance; all the independent countries leave part of their

we have to share with the animal kingdom. Nagas are

sovereignty with the UN. When they enter into treaties

dependent on India in many aspects likewise India is also

with some other countries it gives away some

dependent on Nagas on security. The idea of shared

sovereignty. Sovereignty is compromised. In total

sovereignty was proposed by the Indian leadership since

sovereignty, there will be nothing to share with others.

there was no meeting point. FA was the meeting point of

Sovereignty is recognized by India however the GoI says

these two entities. We have given up something likewise

‘you cannot go away from the government of India.We

they have also given up something. We don’t believe in

cannot compromise the security of India because Nagas

total independence or total isolation from others.

Hills is strategically located and without Naga Hills, India

Nothing here on earth exists in total isolation. Every

security is vulnerable therefore they cannot part with

nation is interdependent. The position once was

the Naga people and their territory’. That is their

diametrical opposite to each other.

concern.

Sovereignty

is

an

inalienable

12

Flag and constitution is an ingredient of our unique history. In 1950 the Indian Constituent Assembly invited the Nagas to join the Union of India. But the Nagas rejected the invitation, so the resistance movement began. They tried to suppress the movement with military might but they can’t so they invited our Naga leaders for political dialogue. Likewise, Eastern Nagas were invited by General Aung San but Nagas in Myanmar are not a party to the Union of Myanmar.

On the question of alternative strategy if talk fails/deadlock Response from Rh. Raising

On the question of political thinking and

If talks fail then that is not the end of the world. If the talk

imagination

fails we will not go to the jungle. We will go back to the

Response from Rh. Raising

people. Why should we go back to the jungle? We will go

You are what you (think) have decided. Ideology moves

back to the people because it was guerrilla warfare that

not only individuals but society, nation, and the world at

was turned into a mass movement by the NSCN. We will

large. We cannot make a building without the decision or

go back to the street and shout and fight for our rights

ideal. We cannot have an individual life without political

democratically. We have been fighting against the

philosophy whether you like it or not politics is in us.

Burmese forces and Indian forces for more than 40 years.

Jesus said “love your neighbours” and this is political.

I joined in 1975 and have been on the fighting front for

Politics is nothing but people’s philosophy. A time will

years. I’m alive by His grace. So we know the hard life of

come when the whole population understands what

an underground cadre. We will go back to the people and

politics is. Politics is the root. If politics is murdered

mobilize world opinion, and people’s opinions. We will

everything will fall apart. If the root is cut off then the

also talk with the Indian leaders here in Delhi and build

branches, flowers, leaves of the tree will eventually die.

up the damaged vision, the broken pieces. We will

Therefore politics is the central subject which everybody

rebuild it. I don’t think we will go back to the jungle.

should understand. For instance, the village is governed by laws headed by the gaonbura/chairman. Without politics, we cannot take a village. We cannot govern a village. So political thinking is very important. One cannot stay away from society because we are interrelated. You cannot do anything on your own accord. There should be a society. There should be a family. There should be a nation. There should be a government.

13

On the question of the current talk, the

On the question of territory and Naga

flag and the constitution

identity

Response from Rh. Raising

Response from Rh. Raising

We are going back home to consult our people. Because

We were politically divided by a colonial power. So we

we cannot compromise on the principle but they (GoI)

should be united politically. Unification of all Naga

are reluctant to allow us to go home but some of us have

territories and unification of all Nagas wherever they are

already left for home and we will also be flying very soon.

located is a natural necessity. My hand is cut off and then

The government of India is also working on it and they

given to somebody else and my legs are scattered

should work on it so that an amicable solution is arrived

somewhere. Then there will come a time for me to gather

at. Otherwise, a deadlock will come. Previously they kept

back all parts of my body together. Now is the time for

their commitment but they went back on their word. So

the Nagas to get together and not to divide. We have

we have to see what steps can be taken. We can’t say

been in the wilderness of sin for a long time. Now the

there is a positive outcome. It is under discussion.

time has come to gather together in our promised land. There is no question of going back. And we don’t believe

Response from Vikiye Sumi

in the language of departmentalism tribalism and

This is not to be exposed now but to some extent, the

sectarianism. Those are viruses that eat into the territory

government of India might like to recognize it in the

of a good society that is advancing or in a growing stage.

future. I am not saying that they have recognized. This is

We rule out advocating departmentalism and division.

under discussion and in case they recognised it then our

Such question of Nagas of Nagaland not willing to accept

point will be where and how to locate and when to locate

Nagas Manipur and Myanmar does not arise. Those are

it. The flag code has to be prepared.

the voices of an individual. The whole of Naga Assembly decides not an individual or few groups of people. In fact,

Kraibo Chawang continues

Nagas are emotionally integrated. Emotional integration

These are the two core subjects. The government of India

was done under the leadership of pioneers like Phizo i.e.

has not given its clear term on it so far. We have told

emotional integration of Nagas wherever they are

them (GoI) that “If flag and constitution are ruled out

located. The term Manipur is the language of the

then there is no point of going further”.

enemies. It is colonial language; we should not say or identify ourselves as Manipuri. We are in the process of becoming perfect nationhood. If some

individuals

advocate

division

based

on

geographical area then we should not listen to such voices.

“If flag and constitution are ruled out then there is no point of going further”.

14

On the question of Capacity Building

And the problem is political so we need a political solution. We need political power to determine

Measures (CBM)

everything. We are keeping those subjects in mind and

Response from Vikiye Sumi We are taking into account the various capacity-building measures. We also believe if the matter is resolved politically

then

capacity-building

measures

will

automatically fall into place. So we are taking into account various aspects as well such as healthcare, education,

sustainable

development,

science

and

technology, skill development, etc.

we have not side-lined those issues. It’s all mentioned in the competencies. After the solution, those will be surely implemented. We can’t execute now because we don’t have the authority to decide our future by ourselves. Supposing we want to send lakh of students to foreign countries like USA, Japan, China for pursuing education in different fields but we cannot do it now because the deciding power is not with us. Our MLAs and MPs go to the higher command because they have no authority to

On the question of economic sustainability

decide by themselves.

and resources

Our fighting is focused on power. Power to decide the future by ourselves. Power to manage our affairs by

Response from Rh. Raising

We have rich minerals and other resources. On top of

ourselves. Currently, our statehood is associated with

that, we are border with Myanmar and China and share

India. When the power is in us we will send out our

close proximity with ASEAN nations such as Thailand,

people to pursue various courses in other countries. And

Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, etc. Nagaland is located near

then we will have more expertise in different fields. We

the SEA market. Trade is not possible without crossing

are fighting for political power so we cannot accept any

Naga territory. This is our asset. For instance, Moreh

solution at the expense of politics. Economic packages do

(Manipur) is one of our gold mines. We have our

not serve the purpose; it cannot feed the mouth of the

resources. And we have to create markets as well.

hungry Naga people. It may feed the Nagas for 5 years or

We Nagas also have the mental potentiality to develop.

ten years but not forever.

God has given us the best gift i.e. mental potential. We will create markets and make revenue. Power makes money,

Politic

make

money.

Politics

will

bring

development. Politics will bring social infrastructure. If we have the political power then revenue will be there. We don’t have to worry about that. We have not forgotten all these subject matters (Economy, development, culture, etc.). Politic is the commander in chief. Politics is the root. So we are talking about the root. India is talking about the flower (development, economic packages).

Response from Vikiye Sumi This is an important issue and we cannot just leave this in negotiating the political issue. We cannot always depend on our mineral resources alone. We cannot depend on the packages, aids from the government of India alone. This is not possible. We have to find ways and means while resolving the Naga political issue. Therefore, we are working on the economic aspects as well though we are not economic experts. We are consulting wellexperienced experts. We are gaining new knowledge through such consultation.

15

Indian

states

like

Haryana,

Gujarat,

Karnataka,

Maharashtra, etc. are self-sufficient. They don’t need to depend on the central government for revenue. Whereas

On the question of the asymmetrical position of flag & Constitution between

Nagaland is a consumer state with no productivity,

India and Nagas and the plan for change in

productivity through taxes, sustainable developments

leadership with reference to the post of

like tourism. Supposing, we take the 16 Point Agreement

Ato Kilonser.

as the bedrock of the Naga society then everything is finished. We don’t have anything except packages there.

Response from Rh. Raising

We cannot just accept the idea and proposal of the

We are a people who have been running our government

Indian government blindly. We have to fight. And

from time immemorial. We have our culture based on our

therefore we are fighting. We are trying our best to

system. We have our social values. We have our laws

include everything especially the economic aspects in the

that govern society. We have our constitution. We are

negotiation. We are discussing custom duties, central

not begging a portion of the Indian constitution. We are

excise, and other sustainable development activities. And

not begging for a piece of the Indian national flag. But we

once the political issues are resolved we will also be

have our flag therefore we cannot part with these two

inviting investors (both national and international).

entities that symbolize our identity (political national identity). I have already said that Indian and Nagas will be

Response from Kraibo Chawang

sharing sovereign powers. We will not accept the Indian

The government of India has attempted to keep Naga

constitution in totality but will be shared. There are

like the zoo. How many engineering colleges, medical

elements of the Indian constitution in our competencies

colleges, science and technology colleges are there in any

that will become part of our constitution. We all know

parts of Naga areas? It lies in the political master’s hand.

that the Indian constitution, IPC, CrPC are photocopies

People talk about economic freedom/independence

of British laws. So today we take a lot from the Indian

instead of political independence. Politics is the master

Constitution but tomorrow that will become part of our

of everything.

constitution. We have told the GoI that we cannot run a government without a constitution. We are running a government. They say “you exercise your sovereignty within your own affairs” but how can we exercise without a law? Everything goes by the law. They don’t want us to use the term constitution but instead want us to use Yehzhabo (Constitution in Sumi dialect) i.e.as basic law or Naga special law. But we have rejected that proposal. The Germans are also using the term basic law. Israel also uses the term basic law. There are histories behind it. In the case of Germans, the laws were dictated by the allied forces so we cannot compare with these two nations whether they use basic laws or not.

16

For us Yehzhabo means constitution. It is yet to be finalized so we can’t divulge everything. We cannot disclose everything when things are not settled mutually

between

the

two

parties.

Flag

and

Constitution are our rights; an inalienable right. It is not subject to discussion or change. It has to be recognized. The Sun is always the sun even if you recognize it or not. Contemporary situations cannot change the rights. We are still negotiating on these aspects. We are running a government which is a People’s Republic government of Nagaland. Monarchy will be phased out. Republic and democracy have come.

The programme was hosted by Vitso Rio, General Secretary, NSUD and Chingri Vashum, Member, NPMHR and the discussion was chaired by James Pochury, Activist. The event was rapporteur by Isaac Inkah, Member, NPMHR. The interaction program was attended by members from different Naga Civil Society Organizations located in Delhi, Units of the NSUD, and well-wishers. The meeting concluded with a vote of thanks by Akhum Longkumer, Member, Naga Peoples’ Movement for Human Rights (NPMHR).

17

Excerpt of the Program Host : Vitso Rio and Chingri Vashum Moderator : James Pochury Rapporteur : Isaac Inkah

Opening Prayer : Rev.Dr.Kadimna Gangmei Welcome Note : Isaac Charenamei, President, NSUD “Open up the heavens” : Marla Lemtur Message : Representatives, NSCN

“Because we believe”: Maker Kashung

DISCUSSION HOUR

“My Motherland” : Malan Thow Pamei Vote of thanks : Akhum Longkumer Closing prayer : Pastor Kahoto Kinimi

Organized by NSUD and NPMHR

18

Appendix: Songs My Motherland Malan Thow Panmei I was born on that land of my ancestors

And I’m proud I’ll be buried there when I die I’ll go to heaven only from that ground Of that land, of that land, my motherland

Open Up the Heavens Marla Lemtur We've waited for this day

We're gathered in Your name Calling out to You Your glory like a fire Awakening desire

My father, and his father, and his forefathers

Will burn our hearts with truth

Were the first settlers on that heavenly, virgin land Countless generations lived and died On that land, on that land, my motherland

You're the reason we're here You're the reason we're singing!

My first breath, my first sip and my first morsel Is the reason that her blood runs in my veins I’d rather die than have that blood exchanged

Open up the heavens We want to see You Open up the floodgates A mighty river

Of that land, of that land, my motherland I may go to foreign shores and learn about their ways

Flowing from Your heart Filling every part of our praise

I may even wear or eat, or earn from someone’s land But my heart belongs to where my blood bonds with that soil

Your presence in this place Your glory on our face

Of that land, of that land, my motherland We’ll shelter the needy wherever they may come from But we won’t let the strangers come for greed or selfishness Nor change our boundaries, our culture or our identity

We're looking to the skies Descending like a cloud You're standing with us now Lord, unveil our eyes

Of that land, of that land, my motherland

You're the reason we're here

I don’t care if the strangers are kings or rulers

You're the reason we're singing!

I don’t care if they bring us wealth or power I won’t fall, or trade or give up its sacredness Of that land, of that land, my motherland

Open up the heavens We want to see You Open up the floodgates

I pray for love, peace and harmony I’ll stand for truth and the future of our children I’ll fight for justice, for freedom and for liberty

A mighty river Flowing from Your heart Filling every part of our praise (2x)

For that land, for that land, my motherland

Show us, show us Your glory Show us, show us Your power Show us, show us Your glory, Lord! (2x)



19

Appendix: Songs Because We Believe Maker Kashung Guarda fuori è già mattina

Questo è un giorno che ricorderai Alzati in fretta e vai C'è chi crede in te Non ti arrendere Once in every life There comes a time We walk out all alone And into the light The moment won't last but then, We remember it again When we close our eyes. Like stars across the sky E per avvincere Tu dovrai vincere We were born to shine All of us here because we believe Guarda avanti e non voltarti mai Accarezza con i sogni tuoi Le tue speranze e poi Verso il giorno che verrà C'è un traguardo là Like stars across the sky E per avvincere Tu dovrai vincere We were born to shine All of us here because we believe Non arrenderti Qualcuno è con te Like stars across the sky We were born to shine E per avvincere Dovrai vincere

KUKNALIM